*RoleModel is an interview series highlighting badass individuals.

To be honest, I was always a little intimidated by Julia Fox.

Smart, beautiful, and talented, when I first moved to New York it seemed everyone knew who she was. She was the downtown It Girl. But Julia’s contributions to nightlife are the least fascinating thing about her.

Whether she was launching a fashion line or premiering a deeply intimate photography exhibit — she displayed a knack for spinning personal struggle into unforgettable art. She doesn’t shy away from her demons, and in a city that often deals in artifice, it’s refreshing to meet someone who’s the real deal.

I caught up with a 27-year-old artist and talked sex, toxic relationships, healing, and living on your own terms.

How do you sexually identify, if you’re open to sharing that?

Julia: I don’t know. I’m never really attracted to anyone by the way they look. You’ll never hear me be like, “Wow, I wanna hook up with that guy. He’s so hot.” I guess [I’m] sapiosexual — just attracted to someone’s mind.

I don’t think you have to label yourself. When I label myself I feel like I’m succumbing to someone else’s idea of who I should be. I’m attracted to who I’m attracted to. If you don’t get it… it’s not your life.

Yeah, to be completely honest I’m attracted to pieces of shit. Like that’s my thing. Love ’em! The more disturbed or just like a bad guy, I’m like, “Ugh, it’s gonna be so fun.” Wild roller-coaster ride of hell.

Where are you from?

I’m from here [New York City] — well actually, I was born in Italy. My mom is Italian, but I grew up here with my dad. I think that’s something that we have in common. You also grew up just with your dad, I can tell.

I don’t take shit, I’m very comfortable around men, and I also know how to fight back. When you’re in a house full of crazy men, you have to learn to stand your ground. For the longest time I was a tomboy, and then I was like, actually, I can get way more stuff if I’m being hot and slutty.

*Eileen laughs*

Rebrand.

What type of influence do you think growing up in New York has had on you?

The worst. But what I can say is that I’m very comfortable around all different types of people from all different walks of life. Because I am a city girl, I’m always prepared for battle.

I went on a road trip to Louisiana last spring, maybe you could describe the experience you had down there?

I’ll tell you a little bit about where I was mentally. I was coming out of this really terrible two year relationship that ended in this huge scandal [because] my boyfriend attacked me, physically. I called the cops. It became this really big thing — it was on Page Six, and everyone was taking sides. People didn’t believe me. People were like, “Julia’s just crazy.” Why the fuck would I make up something so humiliating? I was so mad.

Then I put out my first book: Symptomatic of a Relationship Gone Sour and I actually published photos of the abuse that was inflicted upon me. You don’t believe me? Well, here’s some photos. Then it blew up and went viral, and I couldn’t handle it and I had this breakdown/breakthrough. I was like, I’m leaving.

So I bought a car, went and picked up my friend from upstate who I knew would be down, [and] we just left. We didn’t know we were gonna end up in Louisiana. Eventually, we ended up there. I stayed with some friends. I didn’t think that I was ever gonna come back to New York. I went to Walmart and applied for a job. I was literally like, I’m gonna live here and just be this.

Three months in, [a friend] was on my private Instagram, seeing all these people I was meeting, all the things I was doing, and he thought it was so fascinating. So for Christmas, he gave me a camera. He was like, “Julia, I really want to curate a show when you get back.” And I was like, “What do you mean ‘when I get back?'” But, obviously I came back. After six months of being [in Louisiana], the walls started to close in. We were getting in trouble and the town was like, “Who are you people, why are you here?” So we had to go.

I came back to New York, which was really difficult, [because] at that point I had excommunicated almost everyone. I came back and was like: who are even my friends. What did I use to do? Who was I?

I realized that I was not [the same] person. I wasn’t materialistic anymore. The thought of carrying around a twenty-thousand-dollar bag was completely unfathomable. I became more humble because I had pretty much lost everything.

It took a really long time to recover from all of that trauma. That’s why [I had a photography] show called PTSD. Not only did I lose the love of my life, but I did it in such a public manner that I never had time to mourn.

And with the added stress of people not believing you and [the case] becoming a public spectacle.

Yeah [it was] like the People’s Court. I had people that I used to hang out with everyday be like, “Come on, Jules, you’re breaking up the friend group.” I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

I feel like a lot of your artwork or photos I’ve seen center on your personal life. Does intimacy or a lack of intimacy inspire you?

I don’t know. I guess at that time, love and codependency was such a drug. I would just get high off it and it was so unhealthy. Now, I steer clear and I don’t want any type of romantic relationship with anybody. But back then, I needed it like a drug. I think that that’s why all those images are so dark.

It was a part of you that you couldn’t even control?

Yeah and it was purging, I had to let it all out. Years and years and years of crazy relationships.

Even in my first book, it wasn’t just about what happened at Happy Ending with [my ex]. It was also about stuff that happened ten years prior, with my first real boyfriend who was also abusive. I was a runaway, and then I was a kidnap victim because he wouldn’t let me go home. It was so crazy. If he hadn’t gone to prison, I don’t know what would have happened. Then he terrorized me from jail; had people follow me in cars, threaten my family — it was just so bad. I remember having a breakdown and going to the mental hospital, and after two weeks they were like, “You can go now,” and I was like, “No, please. I don’t want to go. I want to stay here.” And they were like, “Well, your insurance ran out.”

I [have] never really talked about these things.

It seems like you’re in a better place now. Do you have any advice for other people who find themselves in either codependent or even physically/emotionally abusive relationships?

Stop being afraid. It’s your fear that’s holding you. All your obstacles begin and end in your head. Take the plunge. Leave. It won’t be as hard as you think it is, but you have to really want it. You can’t kinda want it.

And there is something so addictive about that discomfort.

And the adrenaline when you’re fighting, or even the making-up ritual afterwards. It’s just such a vicious cycle. Don’t let your fear hold you back — that shit’s not cool.

You recently got your Instagram deleted. Do you have any thoughts on social media censorship, especially when it comes to women’s bodies?

I think it’s such a joke. Oh you’re afraid of kids seeing [women’s bodies]? If your kids are seeing it they already have an iPhone and could easily Google porn already. It just seems really outdated and an antiquated way of thinking. [Instagram] needs to be a little more progressive.

Have you had any experience with sex work?

Mhm! I was a dominatrix in high school because I didn’t live at home [or] have a way of making money. Come on, I wasn’t gonna be a waitress.

How did you get into it?

In 7th grade, I used to basically live at my friend’s house, and her sister was a dominatrix. She was so cool. [My friend] was the only one who had a full length mirror in her room and I was just sitting on the floor [when] she walked in wearing these black fishnets and patent leather platform, open-toed shoes, and this really amazing corset situation. I just remember looking up at her like, wow. She was a dominatrix, and I was like, if she could do it, I bet I could do it.

Later on, at seventeen I had heard about another girl who was doing [dominatrix work] and making so much money. I was like, I’m just going to go on Craigslist see if there’s a job. I met this guy who owned a dungeon [the next day] and he was like, “You’re hired.” And the rest is history.

Did you ever feel nervous about your safety?

It’s legal in New York, so it was controlled. There was a legit establishment. I did have out-calls [out of dungeon appointments] but it was always with regulars that I had seen before. No, I never did [feel nervous].

What did you do on a normal day? Obviously it’s a lot of verbal…

Yeah a lot of verbal degradation, which I always thought was so corny. Like, “Yeah, you fucking pig!” It was just so corny. Some guys wanted to get their balls stepped on with stiletto heels —

Shut up!

I’ve made men’s balls bleed. Like literally. These men would want to get pinned up to the wall by their neck and get kneed repeatedly in their balls. I loved those sessions.

Then I had guys who wanted to be paddled with a wooden paddle as hard as I could go, to the point where this one guy, every time I would hit [him], blood would squirt out. I was getting butt blood on me; it was so lit. He’d be taunting me like, “That’s all you’ve got?” I was like, this motherfucker.

By the end, my arm was sore for two days. It was the craziest workout of my life.

Do you think doing that at such a young age shifted your perception of men?

Yes. Entirely. I feel like maybe that’s why I’m so uninterested [in romance]. Because I feel when you start looking at men more [from the perspective of] what can I get out of you — they’re no longer humans with feelings. I’ve learned now that love isn’t enough. Love is great but it’s not gonna hold together a home.

What would you tell someone who says because you’re a dom, you didn’t respect yourself? People who slut shame you?

My profile went up on this website and I remember I showed my friend, and [then] within a week everyone in the city knew. Everyone saw it, everyone talked about it. I never felt… I don’t know. I feel like being a waitress and being disrespected by one of your customers and then [getting] a shitty tip — that would be not respecting yourself. I’m just not a sub.

You’re taking your life in your hands and doing what you wanna be doing.

Exactly, and I never did anything I was uncomfortable with.

How did you set up boundaries?

They’re not allowed to touch me. No way. So gross. It was just what I wanted to do. That’s the beauty of being a dominatrix as opposed to being a stripper or prostitute. When you’re a stripper, you’re grinding on these guys and letting them touch your tits — it’s just a little more invasive and you’re a little more of an object. When you’re a dominatrix, you’re this goddess. You’re on a high. Like this man will literally drink my piss right now and pay me extra for it. Not saying it’s for everyone — I’m sure a lot of girls wouldn’t be able to do it, to be around those types of freaks.

Did you ever have repeat customers?

Oh, yeah. I’m still in contact with a bunch of them. Even after all this time, they’re so loyal. They really worship you and think you’re the best goddess ever. They want to be your slaves — we call them slaves — and they want to be your slave forever. They want to go grocery shopping for you, be your chauffeur.

Now for some rapid fire questions we like to ask at KAAST. Dating apps or meeting people IRL?

In real life.

Hand job or oral?

Hand job. Blow jobs are gross.

Sub or dom?

Me? Dom.

Sex on the first date or no?

Nah.

What turns you on in a partner?

Being funny.

What turns you off?

Being judgmental.

How do you let someone know you like them?

I go to their first Instagram photo they ever posted —

Nu-uh!

— and like it.

No, you do not, Julia!

Yeah I do.

Do you send nudes?

Mhm.

Do you have any advice on taking them?

Don’t put your face in them.

What’s the worst thing a former partner has ever said to you?

I would never have kids with you because you’re a junkie.

What’s the best thing a former partner has said to you?

That I’m the smartest, most powerful girl he’s ever met.

How do you personally deal with rejection?

I always say rejection is God’s protection, so if you’re rejecting me it’s because I’m probably too good for you. Something better is gonna come and you’re gonna feel so bad when you try to hit me up again and you’re cancelled. So it’s fine.

Have you ever been in love?

So many times.

Do you have advice for getting over heartbreak?

Fall in love with something that is just yours and doesn’t depend on anyone else. Have a project that you can put all your passion in because validating yourself through something you love to do is so much better than any validation you’ll get from someone else. But also, for a lot of my friends, having sex with someone else helps — but that didn’t work for me. What worked for me was doing a creative project.

If you could say one thing to one of your exes what would it be?

Can we get back together? To one of them.

How important to you is sex in a relationship?

It’s very important. But I really think communication and meaningful conversations are way more important.

Any tips for people who aren’t as confident as you?

No one cares as much as you do. Don’t live up to other people’s expectations, only live up to your own.

What’s your sign?

Aquarius. What’s your sign?

Leo.

I love Leos. So loyal. Would you say that you’re loyal?

I’m so loyal, to a fault.

Photo of Julia Fox by Mike Krim. You can follow her on Instagram here.

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